ABORTION

[biblebuf]

Why is the church involved in cleaning up after, instead of focusing on prevention. As for those outside the body, "What have we to do with those who are without?"

The true Church should be involved in stopping sin (murder). Your attatude calls for closing your eyes to what is going on by trying to claim there is no sin in the act of abortion.


 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write : The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this :  'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot ; I wish that you were cold or hot.  'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

[Bob]

To my point:

Obama Defends Roe v. Wade As Way for ‘Our Daughters’ to Have Same Chance As Sons to ‘Fulfill Their Dreams’

(CNSNews.com) – President Barack Obama says the 39th anniversary of Roe v. Wade is the chance to recognize the “fundamental constitutional right” to abortion and to “continue our efforts to ensure that our daughters have the same rights, freedoms, and opportunities as our sons to fulfill their dreams.”

[Proa42]

"The true Church should be involved in stopping sin (murder)."

Really? Where will I find that written?

A good tree brings forth good fruit. A bad tree, bad fruit. You can no more "STOP" sin in someone else, than you can stop a bad tree from producing bad fruit - unless of course, you kill it. But, that's the thing you're you say we should be trying to stop?

Go ye therefore into all the world and make disciples of all men.

And I say, "You must be born again"

And, he shall be like a tree, planted the river of waters that brings forth his fruit in his season, , ,.
The wicked are not so, but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

, , , whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

And this commandment I give you, that you should love one another as I have loved you.

Greater love has NO MAN than this, that he lays down his life for his friends.  But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

[biblebuf]

"The true Church should be involved in stopping sin (murder)."

Really? Where will I find that written?

But Jesus called for them, saying, "Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

If you live in America and have the right to vote, you are the government and it is YOU that hinder them. Now you may not consider yourself a member of the Church body and want to do your own thing and not take orders from the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ, so be it.

[Proa42]

Hey! Are you "judging" me?

Tsk, Tsk.

You still didn't answer the question.  No valid response available, eh?

Frankly, I can't think you really believe that verse is "rightly" used within the context of this discussion. (I know, you intended it to be non sequitur.)

Argumentum ad hominem, on the other hand, is always a giveaway that it's employer has little of relevance, or substance, to ad to a discussion at the point of its interjection.

How do you get from voting, to hindering Children, or make the connection between being a member of the Church and the voting process?

It appears you assume that voters all vote pro-abortion. Do you believe that? It certainly appears so from your statement. And, you also infer that a voter is somehow not a Christian (In the Church - not church). But, I suppose it follows logically, if as you say "have the right to vote, you are the government and it is YOU that hinder them."

But what if, the voter actually voted for so-called conservative christian candidates. Would that voter still be "hindering"?

And that begs the questions, "Can voters vote in a way that does not create the so called hindrance?"

If they can, then you have jumped to the conclusion that I voted in a manner that, not only hinders, but does not meet up to your expectations of righteousness.

Hey! I think I just answered my own question.

[biblebuf]

“Don’t be corrupt when administering justice. Never give special favors to poor people, and never show preference to important people. Judge your neighbor fairly. Never gossip. Never endanger your neighbor’s life. I am the LORD.

If you believe the verses were only meant as a description of character and you can live with that, so be it. If you find no personal or biblical responsibility in doing you legal part of the function of government given to you by our Lord, so be it. It is not my judgement that you have to face after all voting is soooo, well earthly and below a humble man like yourself.


Leviticus 18:21 ESV

You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 12:31 ESV

You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Leviticus 20:1-5 ESV

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.

2 Kings 21:2-6 ESV

And he did what was evil in the sight of the Lord, according to the despicable practices of the nations whom the Lord drove out before the people of Israel. For he rebuilt the high places that Hezekiah his father had destroyed, and he erected altars for Baal and made an Asherah, as Ahab king of Israel had done, and worshiped all the host of heaven and served them. And he built altars in the house of the Lord, of which the Lord had said, “In Jerusalem will I put my name.” And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the Lord. And he burned his son as an offering and used fortune-telling and omens and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.

Psalm 127:3 ESV

Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.

Ezekiel 16:20-21 ESV

And you took your sons and your daughters, whom you had borne to me, and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured. Were your whorings so small a matter that you slaughtered my children and delivered them up as an offering by fire to them?

Jeremiah 7:30-34 ESV

“For the sons of Judah have done evil in my sight, declares the Lord. They have set their detestable things in the house that is called by my name, to defile it. And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind. Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere. And the dead bodies of this people will be food for the birds of the air, and for the beasts of the earth, and none will frighten them away. And I will silence in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, for the land shall become a waste.

Amos 1:13 ESV

Thus says the Lord: “For three transgressions of the Ammonites, and for four, I will not revoke the punishment, because they have ripped open pregnant women in Gilead, that they might enlarge their border.


Jeremiah 7:31 ESV

And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.

Psalm 127:3-5 ESV

Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.

Ezekiel 20:31 ESV

When you present your gifts and offer up your children in fire, you defile yourselves with all your idols to this day. And shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, declares the Lord God, I will not be inquired of by you.


Psalm 106:37-38 ESV

They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons; they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was polluted with blood.

2 Kings 17:17-18 ESV

And they burned their sons and their daughters as offerings and used divination and omens and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger. Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them out of his sight. None was left but the tribe of Judah only.

Romans 5:6-8 ESV

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Ezekiel 16:36-38 ESV

Thus says the Lord God, Because your lust was poured out and your nakedness uncovered in your whorings with your lovers, and with all your abominable idols, and because of the blood of your children that you gave to them, therefore, behold, I will gather all your lovers with whom you took pleasure, all those you loved and all those you hated. I will gather them against you from every side and will uncover your nakedness to them, that they may see all your nakedness. And I will judge you as women who commit adultery and shed blood are judged, and bring upon you the blood of wrath and jealousy.

2 Kings 3:27 ESV

Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place and offered him for a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel. And they withdrew from him and returned to their own land.

[Fat]

It appears you assume that voters all vote pro-abortion....

But what if, the voter actually voted for so-called conservative christian candidates. Would that voter still be "hindering"?

? Humm Man this nation is in trouble.

[Proa42]

No worries, mate. We look for a city whose builder and maker is God -- Don't we? How do all those poor backward brethren of ours ever get along without an American way of life?

I think our so-called impoverished, backward brothers with be better equipped to adjust the coming collapse. Although in this country I'm sure the poor with find it a bit tougher though, because they will have competition at the dumpsters. It's not going to be pretty, when it comes. While we will escape the "wrath" we will be tested as that day draws on.

[Proa42]

Oh, Biblebuf:

It appears we agree on something. Do remember me writing, " For "them" it is tantamount to offering up their children to Molech. "

So all your above agrees.

Somehow you seem to think I am pro-abortion. I'd like to know how you arrived at that, based on what I have written.

[biblebuf]

Oh, Biblebuf:

It appears we agree on something. Do remember me writing, " For "them" it is tantamount to offering up their children to Molech. "

So all your above agrees.

Somehow you seem to think I am pro-abortion. I'd like to know how you arrived at that, based on what I have written.

No no, what I see in your post is someone who feels that there is no obligation for Christians to us legal means to speak out against the practice, and that includes using the government God has given you by something as simple as a vote. This country is going to judged for those 50,000,000 dead children and I will not be called lukewarm on the matter.

[Proa42]

You never answer the question.

You spew out opinion and judgmental statements, but never address the specifics. Are you a Democrat?

I asked what in particular I wrote to give you that idea.

I said the root of the problem was in the church organizations not addressing sin. It's all Kum Ba Ya, How ya do'n, and hot-dish pot lucks.

Try using a little mental discipline; read carefully; organize your thoughts and counter points; and then respond.

[biblebuf]

Here are a few posts that you may want to go back and review.
Reply #4   Reply #5   Reply #6

And the please pay special attention to your reply Reply #9. This is where you try to make an attempt at showing that a fetus was not the same as a person.

In Reply #14 your answer to abortion is;

It is about responsibility. Abortion is the symptom.

Why is the church involved in cleaning up after, instead of focusing on prevention. As for those outside the body, "What have we to do with those who are without?"

And murder is a symptom of anger, lust, or greed. But murder is a sin and abortion is murder. For some reason you don't address this, it baffles human mind.



We do agree on one point that is a matter of responsibility. Apparently you believe that you have no responsibility whatsoever.
When you became a Christian you became no longer of this world, however you are left in this world for a reason. We are here to assist in the work of the Holy Ghost.
The situation we are in here is that people believe that since the murdering of unborn children is legal it is not a sin. The Holy Ghost, when calling someone to Christ, has to first convict a person of their sins. This is very hard to do if the person believes they have not sin.
You were left on this earth for a reason, if not you would have been removed from this earth a minute to accept that Christ. You seem to have a major problem following any kind of logical progression when it concerns biblical principles. You seem to understand that God choose our leaders, Romans 13. However it seems that you refuse to take any responsibility of the assignment given to you by our Lord. That responsibility in a democratic government requires your participation.

You ask me if I'm a Democrat, no I am a Christian.

[Proa42]

You did it again. You are jumping all over the place.

The request for a passage where I said I was pro-abortion.

You still haven't answered the question.

When you read, read what is on the page. This is an unfortunate trait amongst humans. We bring our personal bent to the study, rather than letting the word say what it says, we immediately interpret from our own perspective rather than just letting the words speak -sans interpretation. The Christ explained it this way with respect to the Pharisees - their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.